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luciansavius's avatar

Mr. Frederick is really good at some things, but he is not reasoning well here. And he is misrepresenting the no virus people he names to a shocking degree. Mr. Cowan is the one person out of the crowd who does too often speculate freely and at times to an implausible degree. But everyone else there are precise thinkers and do not state their case in a sloppy manner. They all understand that the true state of the case is that viruses have not been proven to exist. If any of them takes the liberty of actually letting slip that viruses don't exist, it is only in the colloquial sense that one means this when one has exposed a sham. It is a truism that nothing can be proven to not exist, strictly speaking.

Mr. Frederick is lacking in objective analysis here. His arguments are almost entirely rule-of-thumb. Has he ever analyzed one of the foundational experiments that established how viruses actually get "isolated?" He's very good at literary analysis and finding openings for possible interpretation in literary texts, which is why I pay attention to his substack. But he's out of his depth here, it seems, in debunking what these no virus figures have properly exposed. Whether viruses exist or not, and what the methods are that are claimed for having discovered them, is an entirely objective, quantifiable process, entirely subject to strict logical and methodological analysis. So much so, that it doesn't really matter what Mr. Frederick thinks about the scale of the hoax, or whether any one of us thinks it's not possible to create one the size of the virus hoax. The fact that no virus has ever been satisfactorily proven to exist, yet alone cause illness, shifts the burden onto us instead to broaden our speculation on how the hoax at its scale is in fact possible.

Also, Mr. Frederick exaggerates the nature of the criticism these no virus figures direct at other members of the health freedom movement who retain their belief in viruses. They do not unreasonably, or like religious zealots, criticize those who hold the conventional view. They do not descend to ad hominem attacks, nor claim that all public figures retaining the conventional belief are in on the hoax. They do speculate that some of them might act as gatekeepers who are in the know that viruses have not been proven to exist. Even so, they do not attribute ill intention to all of these potential gatekeepers, often conceding that some of them do not profess what they know to be the case in order to avoid controversy and thus retain relevance and credibility among their audiences. I see nothing wrong with that tactic, that one would say one thing in public while privately adhering to a more controversial position. And the virus deniers are not trying to tell me that I'm bad because I think this is ok, though they do express their disagreement that such a tactic is the wisest course of action. So, the polemics that do take place are much more nuanced than Mr. Frederick is portraying them. All the virus deniers I know of seek to make common cause with anyone who prefers to emphasize raising the standards of freedom and informed consent. But there's nothing wrong with making the no virus claim that exposing the entire paradigm of virology as a hoax would solve many other related problems of health freedom in one fell swoop. That is a valid argument, as long as its underlying claim about no proof of viruses is true. If indeed viruses have never been proven to exist, that exposure would solve an array of other problems of medical tyranny pretty fast. And if you believe that viruses are a contrived fiction, how could you not feel the desire to take that straightest of pathways to all of the implications of that realization? I believe the best strategy is to have some trusted mainstream public figures playing it cautiously, and others laying out the full dimensions of the fraud according to the complete evidentiary record for those audiences who seem more willing or able to critically assess such arguments.

What is more, each one of these virus deniers Mr. Frederick names do believe there is partial evidence for contagion of some sort or other, though they all agree that how the contagion works - that we all to some degree observe - is a long way from having been conclusively demonstrated, yet alone explained. Terrain Theorists remain very open to other theories of causation for contagion, particularly models of resonance that resemble how laughing or affective moods, coughing or yawning, and menstrual cycles also appear to be contagious. It may very well be that when a body expresses symptoms of illness or detoxification, it signals this to other bodies who may respond similarly if they are also on some threshold of requiring detoxification or healing of some sort. Terrain Theorists generally interpret the symptoms of illness as the process of healing from the illness, not the direct manifestation of the illness itself. But even so, a lot of illness that might appear to originate as contagion can be hypothesized as - and may very well be due to - environmental exposures experienced in common. Causation is a tricky thing, sometimes even to a mind-bending degree, or in a way that pushes the limits of observation. So it is crucial to remain skeptical about what might seem obvious, and open to how uncannilly nuanced causation not infrequently turns out to be. Indeed, it is the very nuance and complexity of microbes and their causative role in tissue decomposition, that supply the vulnerability to manipulation required to pass off a medical scam at a scale that Mr. Frederick cannot yet wrap his mind around.

I have spent a tremendous amount of time listening to and reading every no virus name Mr. Frederick mentions, and I can say that he is wrong in how he is characterizing them, both in his portrayal of their arguments on the question of the existence of viruses, as well as of the nature of their critical rhetoric of others who maintain the conventional virus paradigm. This article serves rather more to showcase, unwittingly, some limits of Mr. Frederick's own reasoning capacities and his ability to fairly portray how other people frame and articulate their own arguments. I totally give him the benefit of the doubt, so I think his failure to portray these no virus figures accurately is due to not having considered closely enough the arguments they make. I do not at all say that he is a poor observer or intentionally distorting anything. Because he clearly understands other grand hoaxes like the moon landings, I'm sure there's plenty of hope for him to still come around to the virus hoax. But he has his niche, and his interests and talents are more literary, so maybe there's a limitation in that, but I hope not.

For anyone wishing to read something put out by one of these virus deniers, in this case Mr. Mark Bailey, here is the link to his most exhaustive presentation against the establishment of the existence of viruses and their pathogenicity:

https://drsambailey.com/a-farewell-to-virology-expert-edition

Mathew Crawford's avatar

I ran into Imani Oxam (Gaia TV) at an event in early 2023. A friend introduced us and she took a step back. She clearly knew who I was, probably because I refused to go along with the military health database psyop. Her best friend was the organizing lawyer, Scientologist Leigh Dundas.

I think she was momentarily mind boggled because she admitted to me organizing the No Virus group on message in 2020.

Huh.

Not long after, Jerm warfare guy attacks me in a chat group, out of nowhere, with a profanity laced tired, even attacking my wife, a biochemist who studies P53 cancer pathway, but sometimes viruses (basic work, not BSL4 or anything dedicated). But I was able to corner him. He claimed a guest of his was a biologist who did not believe in viruses. I listened to his podcast interview, but that isn't what the Ga Tech guy said. He just doubted the HIV theory. We connected by email, so I put the question to him directly. He did not respond.

Yeah, these people are playing a game to draw in people they can dupe and farm. Some of the shady MFM groups have investment cults with mediums who channel stock picks. Yes, really. That's the Arlington Institute crowd from what I hear.

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